#43 CultureXchange on Tour - Understanding Vietnamese Culture Beyond the Tourist Experience with Hana Bui

00:00:00:

00:00:28: Hello everyone, my name is Marie-Christine.

00:00:31: Together we are hosting this podcast for the international community where we talk about living and working abroad, expat life

00:00:40: welcoming

00:00:40: special guests who share their expertise.

00:00:44: With our Culture Exchange Podcasts We're providing a platform regarding topics of culture identity To raise awareness and give insights on how to navigate the challenges, opportunities of a multicultural life.

00:00:59: Join us in our journey around the world!

00:01:10: Welcome to The Culture Exchange podcast.

00:01:13: today we're doing something different with special edition.

00:01:17: we call culture exchange on tour.

00:01:20: so while I'm joining you as usual from Germany Franke is in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam where she's meeting

00:01:28: today's guest

00:01:29: Hanna Bui.

00:01:30: In person!

00:01:31: So together we're exploring Vietnam beyond the tourist experience to discover the culture everyday life and perspectives that visitors often miss.

00:01:41: so Franke over to you

00:01:44: Hello and

00:01:46: Xin Chào from Ho Chi Min City.

00:01:50: Merry Christine and to all our listeners This episode is actually a first for us.

00:01:57: Normally you will find us sitting right next to each other, Marikristi!

00:02:02: But today we are recording from nine thousand seven hundred fifty kilometers which are certain flight hours apart Which feels fitting given everything that we talk about on the show.

00:02:13: It's all about connecting and communicating across borders And cultures in time zones.

00:02:20: We're five hours ahead of you.

00:02:23: I'm super excited if our listeners enjoy this culture exchange on tour episode.

00:02:30: Thank you Frauk, very exciting!

00:02:32: So before we meet Hannah tell us Frauk where are you exactly and is it your first time in Vietnam?

00:02:39: Yeah directly reporting interviewing from Ho Chi Minh City special day because it's Ho Chi Minh City's formation.

00:02:48: So, its fifty years anniversary.

00:02:51: so like the right date to be here.

00:02:53: and yes It is actually my first time in Vietnam.

00:02:57: I did a wonderful backpacking trip with good friend of mine Like years ago after my PhD.

00:03:04: decades ago i went to Hong Kong To Thailand Malaysia Singapore Indonesia Actually A few months on The road but we somehow skipped Vietnam, and it's on my bucket list ever since.

00:03:18: So I'm really happy that this trip finally brought me here!

00:03:21: And i am visiting one of our partner universities which happens to be right in Ho Chi Minh City.

00:03:28: So Marie-Christine what about you?

00:03:29: Have you been to Viet Nam?

00:03:31: If

00:03:32: so...

00:03:33: What were your impressions or any experiences that stuck with?

00:03:38: Yes,

00:03:38: that's great Frauk and then you finally managed to visit Vietnam.

00:03:42: So yes for myself of course I've actually visited Vietnam a few times basically while i was living in Asia.

00:03:49: it wasn't an opportunity not as far from Europe And I absolutely love Vietnam but also know I only experienced the small part of the culture Of course As a tourist so really looking forward learning more about Vietnam today.

00:04:05: Yeah, and I think Vietnam is a country many people dream of visiting.

00:04:10: but today we want to go beyond

00:04:12: the guidebooks and

00:04:14: discover what everyday life here really like through someone who knows it from inside.

00:04:22: So sitting right next me today is Hana Bui.

00:04:26: Hana is an intercultural trainer that helps international professionals better understand Vietnamese culture and build successful relationships across cultures.

00:04:40: Hanna, welcome to the Culture Exchange podcast!

00:04:43: Hello!

00:04:43: Welcome

00:04:44: Hanna!

00:04:46: Thank you Falka and Marie.

00:04:49: Yeah it's my pleasure to present in the postcard today And thank you very much for your invitation.

00:04:57: I'm very happy if i can help the audience to understand Vietnam a little bit more.

00:05:09: And of course, our talk will not stop today and we still keep conversation going on after the postcards as well.

00:05:20: Thank

00:05:21: you Hannah, I've only just arrived in Ho Chi Minh City myself.

00:05:27: So this question is for me as much... As it is for our listeners out there.

00:05:33: What's

00:05:34: something people usually misunderstand during their first days In Vietnam?

00:05:42: Yeah Thank you!

00:05:43: It was a very interesting question.

00:05:47: As a foreigner, first come to Vietnam.

00:05:50: In the very first few days you may have feeling that wow people are so friendly!

00:05:56: Everyone can smile with you and they want to help you And if they communicate in English They say nice thing about you.

00:06:07: Also sometimes ask your personal question So somehow... Wow, I have gained the trust of local people here.

00:06:16: However it may be a misinterpretation.

00:06:21: you know gaining trust is not that easy and quick thing.

00:06:27: so for many experts who live in Vietnam they could know better than getting just take lots time effort.

00:06:41: Yeah, so interesting.

00:06:42: Thank you for your insight, Sanaa!

00:06:44: That's so interesting and I actually love that question because i remember visiting in Vietnam while I was living in Asia And every country has basically these unwritten rules as we just described.

00:06:58: So once you know them hopefully will get to know more.

00:07:00: this episode everything makes so much more sense.

00:07:05: But Hannah, tell us more about yourself.

00:07:08: how did you actually end up working or doing this work?

00:07:13: helping people understand and navigate between cultures?

00:07:18: Oh, thank you.

00:07:19: Yeah so please give me a chance like to briefly introduce about myself.

00:07:25: So I'm an intercultural trainer and best selling author.

00:07:29: I cover the five mainland Southeast Asian countries not only Vietnam where i come from but also Lao Cambodia Myanmar and Thailand.

00:07:40: And why am doing this job?

00:07:42: Many people ask me these questions.

00:07:45: actually It happened by accident, can you believe it?

00:07:49: So... You know when I was living in Myanmar as an expert myself.

00:07:56: actually i was living here for ten years.

00:07:58: Um..I wrote a book When Global Miss Local How Experts Can Succeed In Myanmar.

00:08:05: so it became the best selling book about Myanmar in two thousand nineteen when this was launched.

00:08:11: and um because like many people talk Also at that time, you know there is an increasing demand to understand Myanmar and also a lot more ice pad come to Myanmar for work.

00:08:25: So the number of global training and relocation companies contacted me And asked me to be their intercultural trainer.

00:08:35: That's why I become an Intercultural Trainer till today.

00:08:39: It has been around eight years since then.

00:08:43: I love that.

00:08:44: as you mentioned, it happened by accident.

00:08:47: Most of the time actually... That's what is happening in life

00:08:50: right?

00:08:52: But take a look like behind-the-postcard

00:08:57: of

00:08:57: Vietnam because there are such huge gaps between what tourists see.

00:09:05: You just visit this country and mention things

00:09:09: time

00:09:10: to trust, build relationships.

00:09:13: And

00:09:14: that's a tourist version maybe but what people who actually live here need to learn and navigate it better?

00:09:23: Yeah

00:09:24: so yeah of course It could be more complicated to understand Vietnam when you are an expert working here than just a tourist and visit Vietnam for days or weeks.

00:09:42: As an expert, if there is responsibility then work with the team.

00:09:50: get like reach the KPI size, right?

00:09:54: So understanding Vietnamese culture and Vietnamese people behavior so that you can collaborate with them well is a very important and crucial work.

00:10:09: And how to do this?

00:10:11: So my main job as an inter-culture trainer it's help the ice pack to lead across cultures with clarity and confidence.

00:10:20: So when they have the clarity, understanding about a culture... They could live with confidence.

00:10:26: but without an understanding it's difficult to say we are confident right?

00:10:31: And to understand the culture.

00:10:35: of course there are different aspects about understanding cultures But at first one should have kind like the right mindset As a newcomer.

00:10:44: they should observe more, listen more learn more have curiosity and open-minded mindset so that you can see things from different cultural perspective.

00:11:00: And with those openness at first to see there are different ways of looking.

00:11:08: It's not right or wrong, but you know You look at things from different perspective like for example if you looked at number six on night.

00:11:19: You can see someone in From the opposite side.

00:11:23: Someone can say it totally number nine.

00:11:26: But yeah The person that says no is one hundred percent number six.

00:11:29: Yeah Is very important to have an open-minded?

00:11:36: That's the starting point.

00:11:40: That's so interesting, yeah.

00:11:42: I like this idea about the past, the postcard.

00:11:46: So what's more?

00:11:46: The insights and everything.

00:11:48: so yeah i remember thinking you know as a tourist or even when you move to a country You understand quite a lot after a few days.

00:11:56: but actually looking back everyone knows probably your only scratch-the-surface especially As a tourist right.

00:12:03: so hannah What can you say would be Like A moment maybe When you think people tourists or even people who move to Vietnam, you know your country there.

00:12:16: To suddenly realize ah I'm beginning to actually understand now here the culture and we're beginning to understand a little bit about Vietnam.

00:12:26: is that anything?

00:12:28: there's a one moment most of the experts or internationals have they feel more settled maybe.

00:12:35: Yeah so, you know like very common kind of culture shocks for the ice baths working in Vietnam The newcomer ones especially from the west yeah and if they come directly from Europe For example And I didn't had any Asia experience.

00:12:55: So when listen to people you know in a conversation.

00:13:00: So, because harmony have very strong road in Vietnam and also Asia generally speaking People had the tendency say yes And they don't like saying no No for many time could be like taboo When I start just hearing Yes from their colleagues.

00:13:28: So they may interpret it like, okay I promise!

00:13:32: I

00:13:32: agree!!

00:13:33: I will deliver.

00:13:35: so it's an enlightenment.

00:13:37: however after wow you know?

00:13:39: They see things is not as expected and feel why when people say yes but i don't see the you know deliver...they dont do

00:13:48: it..why??

00:13:49: they don't keep that promise.

00:13:52: Sometimes like it even goes are they trying to teach me.

00:13:56: but actually It's the culture thing, you know.

00:13:59: Like when people say yet They just have a different meaning It doesn't really mean I agree.

00:14:07: But if can be like i'm listening to you?

00:14:09: I'm respecting your eye Understand you that sort of thing rather than I agree with you.

00:14:16: I promise with you and after you know, some kind of incidents like that expect begin to understand the different meaning of yes.

00:14:27: And they feel okay I understand a little bit more about Vietnam and then try to deal also in indirect way because saying yes is very feature of indirect communication culture.

00:14:43: so... They can have kind of like understanding some kind signal for saying no.

00:14:51: For example, people don't say no explicitly but they can say like let me see and think.

00:15:00: I'm not sure it may be difficult or something like that.

00:15:04: so there's a hint of saying no if I spot one really want to understand what Vietnamese are thinking.

00:15:14: Yeah, so they should you know like ask further questions.

00:15:17: Like five w and one h question rather than just ask yes no question is dangerous to us.

00:15:24: Yes No question because most of the people have a tendency to say yes.

00:15:29: I think this is so important right?

00:15:31: Because

00:15:31: coming from

00:15:32: like low context culture where we are quite direct Marika still writes

00:15:37: very direct

00:15:38: forward and explicit in our communication.

00:15:42: I think we don't get the cues.

00:15:44: We do not get the signals you just mentioned, and it's very hard even if you try to listen or observe but read a difference right?

00:16:01: So what again i'm getting is like there are so much that happens in conversation which isn't sad Right!

00:16:08: What does respect for age

00:16:12: and

00:16:12: hierarchy actually play in an ordinary day at

00:16:16: work, yeah.

00:16:18: In a family on the street

00:16:21: what's

00:16:21: played?

00:16:23: because this context is quite essential

00:16:26: right?

00:16:26: Sure sure hierarchy indirect communication or saving face and relationship are kind of like three you know most notable thing that I spot when they have some certain kind of experience with Vietnam.

00:16:44: So hierarchy is also very important, hierarchy in a basic meaning means like you have to respect people with the age and rank.

00:16:54: yeah so you respect people that older than you ,you respect people senior then you .

00:16:59: In family for example there are different kinds of hierarchies what to say, social hierarchy.

00:17:11: And in the family for example normally the dad you know father will be kind of key person or a high just like ranking if we can put it that way.

00:17:24: and so he is to be respected right?

00:17:30: Also parents have the rights the their children like in a teaching manner what to do.

00:17:44: but you know even sometimes they are all the children already like elders.

00:17:49: You're now like twenty years old, thirty years old forty years old still.

00:17:54: I mean yeah and we have some kind of power flyer.

00:18:04: If a fish doesn't eat the salt, it will be ruined.

00:18:12: And if you don't listen to your parents... You would be wrong something like this!

00:18:20: Yeah that's very high order key right?

00:18:23: and at school okay whatever normally generally speaking of course here we don't say absolutely but just generally speaking

00:18:33: Whatever

00:18:34: teachers said is right.

00:18:37: So the students are not taught to ask questions, so that's why many experts meet and understand.

00:18:45: you know like people don't ask me a question at any time they have no initiative or passive, they rely on me for decisions because of their culture.

00:19:00: They always think about respecting people older than them, senior than them in every environment that they are in.

00:19:10: That's why it doesn't mean they're unable to have an initiative or make decisions and ask questions but try to do the hierarchy thing properly.

00:19:25: so thats also one of things I understand about Vietnamese culture.

00:19:29: So when they are encouraged to ask questions, make decisions and think for themselves in a proper or suitable way.

00:19:37: They can do it very well.

00:19:39: so actually these people have good problems over especially if you look at the history like not only recently but recently Vietnam is kind of gaining higher position in the global market, you know like ranking tourism.

00:19:58: to read destination or the food dishes I mean different thing.

00:20:03: but if you look back thousand years of history like Vietnam tried to solve a problem fighting against the Chinese all the time.

00:20:18: It's also different from other countries.

00:20:20: so for example thousands China later in the thirteenth century, they defeated the Mongol Empire at that time.

00:20:32: You know Mongolia was the most powerful empire in the world and very few countries can do it.

00:20:38: And Vietnam is still a small country, right?

00:20:41: After that you see they fight with French, they fight American... They don't fight head on or directly but try to solve this problem by creating conditions for environment so we could win.

00:20:57: So we have an upper hand in those specific situations.

00:21:02: Yeah, so actually there are good problems.

00:21:05: You know many experts after a while they can realize that but not everyone can see.

00:21:12: So because of the culture yeah

00:21:14: That's my

00:21:14: point actually

00:21:15: that like history always I always tell my students you have to look at the history or country of our culture really understand where people coming from Because there is always reason for

00:21:26: how

00:21:27: they communicate or behave, act.

00:21:30: and I think this is so fascinating because you can tell just by getting familiar with the culture.

00:21:37: Just one more sentence?

00:21:38: Yes!

00:21:40: Because...I looked up what's hello in Vietnamese And then gave it back to me.

00:21:46: actually there was like a small tutorial on Somewhere.

00:21:51: I looked it up and said, OK depends to whom you are talking.

00:21:56: And then there were like how many different cases if somebody who is older or younger

00:22:02: age

00:22:02: group?

00:22:03: Is a female male?

00:22:05: So I was totally lost because they're so many different case that just went with the simple version.

00:22:12: Exactly!

00:22:14: But this is the mirror.

00:22:18: How would we say each other what's right for us?

00:22:20: Congratulations.

00:22:21: Xin Chao?

00:22:22: Yes, it's right.

00:22:23: Xin chao very nice Thank you.

00:22:25: That's the easiest way for me because then I get so complicated

00:22:30: Sometimes.

00:22:31: some Vietnamese people they said why do you teach foreigners to say sin chao?

00:22:37: Why never use sinchao in your daily life?

00:22:39: So how can we teach them different ways of teaching?

00:22:44: Hello to I mean different people like two parents to uncle to auntie To friend the younger people to men too female.

00:22:54: I mean you can't.

00:22:56: Actually, Xin Zhao is the easiest way and it's still respectful.

00:23:00: And you can apply in every situation.

00:23:03: that's why Xin Zhao very fantastic appropriate and respectful.

00:23:08: Very

00:23:08: good So interesting.

00:23:10: Thank You for sharing.

00:23:14: I would like to talk a little bit about culture or personality frog right?

00:23:18: Like invisible cultural questions especially for our international audience navigating mixed teams.

00:23:25: so Hannah foreigners there, yeah.

00:23:28: So what do they claim on personality?

00:23:32: that it's actually culture?

00:23:34: What is it?

00:23:34: because there's a fine line between personality and culture right depending who you're actually work with or meet.

00:23:40: so do face that problem also without your foreigners.

00:23:44: whom will you coach?

00:23:45: Sure

00:23:46: sure thank you fantastic question but could be like culture But people can think it's a personality.

00:23:56: So part of the, you know question I was mentioning previously so people can take like via newcomer expert to contain that their Vietnamese colleagues are kind of passive no initiative and don't dare ask questions And they want decision not independent something like this and creative Not proactive but actually because of the hierarchy right.

00:24:25: so yeah.

00:24:27: and also another you know aspect of this is about the relationship and trust.

00:24:33: So when people don't really know who you are, how will react to a certain situation they protect themselves to be safe, you know?

00:24:45: So they don't really like ask questions or raise their opinion.

00:24:50: Or speak out in the meeting because there is not good relationship yet.

00:24:57: but after a while if the expert knows how to spend time with that team and people privately Because relationships here also mean personal relationships Yeah, that's why they ask you personal questions.

00:25:17: They spend time together and understand each other maybe in the meal or coffee or karaoke or play together.

00:25:28: Like a lot of team building activity here in Vietnam.

00:25:32: so people must like to work with each other.

00:25:38: So after a while if the expert can really make relationship and build a trust with the team.

00:25:44: So people will be more open to them, okay?

00:25:47: They'll speak to you more directly.

00:25:49: they may say no more freely And now I have initiative that can speak out their opinion etc.

00:25:57: but they just do Interesting, yeah.

00:26:01: Otherwise they will be safe first and then rather you know like have a certain kind of restraint in what they do or what they talk to you.

00:26:13: so Hannah

00:26:14: just

00:26:15: flip.

00:26:16: I would like

00:26:16: to flip the

00:26:17: usual frame

00:26:18: because

00:26:19: street runs both ways, right?

00:26:21: Because

00:26:22: we always talk about foreigners or expats coming to Vietnam and having a culture shock here.

00:26:29: Navigating these differences... But now i want to hear from you!

00:26:36: When

00:26:36: do Vietnamese people get a culture-shock dealing with

00:26:41: us?

00:26:41: With

00:26:42: expat

00:26:48: but visitor

00:26:51: You can be honest.

00:26:52: Thank you, I will be honest no worries it's my job.

00:26:56: so of course on the other side because street runs both ways Vietnamese people also get culture shock when they deal with foreigners especially Newcomer foreigner come from the West Europe America Australia for example.

00:27:18: because those people can be like Very direct.

00:27:21: Yeah, so they ask you yes no and They can say no so easily.

00:27:27: You know like suddenly or implicitly explicitly yeah.

00:27:32: So for example, you know there is a an expert share with me.

00:27:36: he's a british.

00:27:37: so yeah when he first come to vietnam in her first month, she was like you know kind of giving a very direct feedback to one of his juniors.

00:27:50: Even they are not very direct like, yes but also depend on the specific person right?

00:27:58: They're not as direct as German I mean generally speaking.

00:28:05: so you know he was given kind direct feedback, maybe less direct than German.

00:28:11: I mean it's just my interpretation.

00:28:15: but still you know like kind of direct to the Vietnamese ear.

00:28:19: so through junior and in front other people it means publicly.

00:28:25: So the guy is a young guy you know young vietnamese man.

00:28:34: he feels I mean, uncomfortable.

00:28:37: Sure right?

00:28:39: And he kind of tried to avoid his boss.

00:28:43: after

00:28:43: that you know He chose to avoid talking with the Boss or interacting with the boss and become shy.

00:28:53: Yeah inside maybe feel a bit like criticize publicly which is taboo in Vietnamese culture.

00:29:03: Okay, so after a while the expert learned about that and he tried to amend yeah his mistake.

00:29:12: So he tries you know like kind of built a personal relationship with him and like kind of when he did the good thing.

00:29:24: He you know, the ice pad like braced him publicly.

00:29:29: that's such a big to amend the bravest mistake.

00:29:33: so after awhile it worked yeah.

00:29:36: And then there was this young man feel comfortable again to work with the British Ice Pad.

00:29:45: But it takes time and effort.

00:29:49: And we're not sure if you can do all the time, so the best is try to have a kind of good preparation before actually work in Vietnam because your own mistakes are undone like this.

00:30:07: It could be more serious Yeah.

00:30:10: And so it's definitely public critique is one of the issues, yeah?

00:30:15: Is there something else you feel tourist visitors or people who move to Vietnam actually do... They're actually meaning well right they want to do something good

00:30:24: but

00:30:26: Actually quietly It lands really badly for your culture and for the Vietnamese.

00:30:30: Is that something like a common mistake You notice?

00:30:33: Oh, yes.

00:30:34: So normally I spent ten to ask very direct question.

00:30:40: So for example, any problem?

00:30:46: Everything on track everything good something like this.

00:30:52: so if they have that kind of questions so the reply possibly you know Like yeah Good Yeah, everything is okay.

00:31:04: We

00:31:04: are checking in.

00:31:05: So

00:31:06: not to ask these questions, okay.

00:31:09: Yeah and when they do not have enough trust you know in relationship They should not ask those question because normally they just receive very safe answer like this.

00:31:19: Because of the saving face culture And also people need a certain kind of safety psychology condition To be open to report bad news to their team or to the senior, especially to the seniors.

00:31:38: So they make time for you know like fix problems themselves because maybe afraid of being kind not very competent in front of a boss but sometimes it could be too late It has consequences.

00:32:04: Imagine delivery late, supplier things come late.

00:32:09: yeah so actually I recently developed a kind of you know like the Vietnamese trust reporting system

00:32:17: okay

00:32:19: it's newsletters.

00:32:22: this problem because many experts in Vietnam they have a feeling that they always had to fight fighting So they need to solve the problem in their last minute.

00:32:33: And so, we want them get truthful information earlier and have a visibility of possible problems.

00:32:41: but because people do not trust themselves enough or are not open for it that way They always reply with good news saying yes Or try to fix this before reporting.

00:32:58: So

00:32:59: it's

00:33:00: part to understand that very notable aspect of Vietnamese culture and try to create the very proper safety psychology, psychological condition so that their colleagues can report them information.

00:33:21: The truthful information earlier so they could reduce fighting at last minute.

00:33:28: Otherwise they feel like in the passive position and KPI has impact, right?

00:33:36: I mean negative impacts.

00:33:38: And also this is consequences.

00:33:41: Yeah.

00:33:43: So that's quite interesting actually because tomorrow i'm talking to international students here studying at university about leading across cultures.

00:33:57: That's

00:33:57: probably the most crucial thing about Vietnam.

00:34:01: They need to understand, to lead well right?

00:34:04: To establish like an environment of safety

00:34:08: and trust

00:34:09: so that everyone feels really comfortable to speak up

00:34:13: as well.

00:34:13: okay So

00:34:16: let's talk a little bit about takeaways.

00:34:18: Practical for listeners.

00:34:20: who is actually coming here Someone who is moving to Vietnam, not just passing through what I'm doing right now.

00:34:33: What

00:34:33: are two or maybe three things you would tell them on day one?

00:34:39: Okay so only one yeah.

00:34:45: Notable thing about Vietnamese culture.

00:34:48: relationship.

00:34:50: First one

00:34:51: relationship.

00:34:52: and second thing hierarchy.

00:34:54: And third is about saving faith in indirect communication.

00:34:59: That's the three most critical things.

00:35:03: If they can understand that, at least we survive first.

00:35:12: The first goal is to survive and with time it may be more adaptable.

00:35:20: Interesting but then let's flip around Hannah.

00:35:22: so this all for international right?

00:35:27: Maybe what would you wish for anyone who is traveling to Vietnam, like a mindset?

00:35:33: You hope people leave Vietnam with or something they learned maybe from Vietnamese culture.

00:35:39: Is there anything that you hope as a Vistoria can actually take back their home country?

00:35:46: Yeah

00:35:47: so

00:35:47: um...

00:35:49: So may be my wishful thinking yeah!

00:35:52: So nowadays we see alot more international tourists come to Vietnam, right?

00:35:59: And you know like kind of some experts say Vietnamese is a rising star in Asia.

00:36:05: There's also book with that name as well published several years ago.

00:36:13: and what do I want to say?

00:36:16: so previously when not only me but lots of Vietnamese people came out go overseas and foreigners are going to ask about Vietnam war.

00:36:33: Vietnam was very famous for the Vietnam War history, even nowadays some people still asked like it's still a war in vietnam yeah which is sad right.

00:36:48: so I hope that when You know, they visit Vietnam and can see the new Vietnam.

00:36:54: Exactly!

00:36:55: The new

00:36:55: generation...

00:36:58: And Vietnam is one of the most dynamic countries in the world In terms of GDP growth.

00:37:09: Anyway So for nearly forty years, Vietnam has like six to seven percent GDP growth And they can see that Vietnamese people are very welcome foreigners.

00:37:29: They try to work in order have a better life and also invest education for their children, etc... We might also have some more time to learn about Vietnamese history because it's my favorite subject and understand more about the Vietnamese people.

00:38:00: I think many of them will love Vietnamese food, the dishes.

00:38:05: Oh yes!

00:38:08: But sometimes they can meet with some not very nice experience.

00:38:13: Not everyone has a comfortable experience in Vietnam as well.

00:38:18: However...I hope that they have different image about Vietnam.

00:38:23: The current Vietnam is not about Vietnam War anymore?

00:38:27: It might be Yeah, yeah.

00:38:30: Hanna in this context

00:38:33: what

00:38:33: took you the longest to explain to outsiders?

00:38:36: actually and because you have like a long expertise now over eight years right?

00:38:42: So based on...in this context What took you is the longest explained to outsiders And how did you explain it now?

00:38:49: if you do it like basically all those things that happened at your experience?

00:38:54: Okay So, thank you for the interesting question and as an intercultural trainer.

00:38:59: Because I have to help the ice pad leaders to lead a cross culture in Vietnam with clarity of confidence so that clarity is important right?

00:39:12: You know like number people they can also do kind of intercultural training with their own experience.

00:39:24: It might be good, but it also has some limitations.

00:39:27: You know if you are not trained like in a systematic way and professionally And you just give other people your experience from your own perspective Your own lens I often need to take time To get them learn about the Vietnamese culture as whole As system Understand belief Culture values and how they are interplay with each other, what kind of behaviour system can be seen in Vietnamese people from even when there were little kids until they grow up.

00:40:12: They don't just rely on the do and don'ts, tips.

00:40:17: Because it's dangerous!

00:40:20: But if you can understand like... because of Vietnamese culture.

00:40:26: Exactly know why people behave that way not only what or how.

00:40:31: And You can understand more systematically when you understand why more, you know, sympathetic with people when they are doing something that may be very differently from what we're doing.

00:40:50: Yeah it can happen very naturally yeah...when you understand the why

00:40:56: but

00:40:56: if you just rely on the true and don'ts actually do-and-don cannot be right all the time And If You Don't Understand The Context & Why It's so

00:41:06: true.

00:41:06: Yeah, it just like you do something and don't really understand things while doing it.

00:41:12: So interpretation is better to learn it.

00:41:15: like that You have the proper interpretation about people behavior so we can collaborate with them well.

00:41:27: Thank

00:41:27: you so much, Anna.

00:41:29: It's interesting and thank you for all the insights.

00:41:32: Hannah it was great learning more about Vietnam definitely through your eyes in hearing your perspective.

00:41:39: So if any of our listeners would like to learn more about your work or connect with you How can they do that?

00:41:46: Where can find

00:41:50: their best?

00:41:57: or I can put the website link as well.

00:42:00: And, oh!

00:42:01: i just remember you know if they want to understand more about Vietnamese culture and especially in a systematic way They could read my third book.

00:42:11: You Know Vietnam Here Yes...I wrote it Especially for the... I start in Vietnam.

00:42:20: Fantastic global miss local from the asphalt.

00:42:24: hold your shock to driving in vietnam.

00:42:26: fantastic yeah it can help them.

00:42:30: uh a lot.

00:42:30: i mean we put him

00:42:31: on the show notes now.

00:42:32: okay be putting in the show note for our listeners.

00:42:34: so if they can access all the links and um and find all the information there in

00:42:41: Yes.

00:42:41: And the book on Amazon!

00:42:45: We'll

00:42:46: provide all things, yeah?

00:42:49: Thank you so much Hannah for your time and for stopping by.

00:42:55: thank you to everyone actually who are listening to this first special episode called Exchange On Tour episodes.

00:43:03: we hope that you enjoyed exploring Vietnam with us.

00:43:07: I mean honestly it was just a brief snippets here.

00:43:10: It was a quick run-through, but still stay tuned.

00:43:14: we hope to bring you more culture exchange on tour episodes.

00:43:17: if you love it please let us know from around the world.

00:43:21: so until next time.

00:43:23: thank you so much for listening to The Culture Exchange podcast!

00:43:31: Bye.