#44 Find Your Voice Abroad - 6 Steps to Real Confidence with Ina Saltanava

00:00:00:

00:00:23: Hey everyone and welcome to the Culture Exchange

00:00:27: Podcast.

00:00:28: My name is Frauke Hello,

00:00:30: my name is Marie-Christine.

00:00:32: Together we are hosting this podcast for The International Community where we talk about living And working abroad Expert life Welcoming special guests who share their expertise.

00:00:45: With our culture exchange podcast We're providing a platform regarding topics of culture identity to raise awareness and give insights on how to navigate the challenges & opportunities of a multicultural life.

00:01:00: Join us for our journey around the world!

00:01:09: Today we start with someone you might recognize, maybe she's YOU.

00:01:15: She is in a meeting And she is good, really good.

00:01:18: She reads better than anyone there And stays quiet Not because she has nothing to say but because somewhere along the way, She got a message that The way she does things doesn't quite belong here.

00:01:34: Does this sound familiar?

00:01:37: Have you met women like her?

00:01:39: Our guest today Has written something we think A LOT of people have been waiting for without knowing it!

00:01:46: She is an executive coach for international leaders and offers tailored coaching programs to individuals, organizations that work with international talents or navigate business across cultures.

00:01:59: She's the founder of Global Leader Edge has developed several coaching programmes.

00:02:09: We are so glad to have you

00:02:20: here.

00:02:22: Since

00:02:30: we've heard about the book already, and of course you want to dive deeper.

00:02:33: But we always wanted start with a person... And maybe not that book first?

00:02:37: So tell us yourself how did you end up actually caring about this topic?

00:02:43: where does it begin for you?

00:02:46: right?

00:02:48: well thank You For This Question.

00:02:49: It's really dear To Me This Topic And It Comes From My Own Experience As An International Professional And A Woman Who Leads & Lives Abroad.

00:02:58: I have built my life several times across different cultures and borders, and industries as well.

00:03:05: So since i moved abroad ,I actually thought that the hardest part would be to learn a new language or to adjust myself to a new culture And I found myself many times in front of unknown and unfamiliar .And so That was difficult !and it took a lot of energy from my side.

00:03:24: but The hardest part wasn't that and surprisingly I found myself in the most difficult situation when i had to rebuild my confidence.

00:03:33: So, the hardest part was keeping my confidence and that's what I found little support with...I suddenly realized that on top of being in a different environment ,i also was the foreigner!

00:03:46: And thats how people perceived me..and i remember that feeling of constantly feeling like i wasn't enough ..and even worse you know?

00:03:54: I didn't see way ever become enough.

00:03:58: And the gap felt too big, the perceived gap between me and them.

00:04:03: By then I mean locals professionals experienced men in leadership positions...and i didn't have anyone to talk about that!

00:04:14: That's what made it really difficult for someone who comes from a small village or development country.

00:04:25: Sometimes we think of an expert as someone who is very successful and maybe even rich, you know.

00:04:33: Someone can travel the world and be romanticized.

00:04:35: that experience a lot but for me it was completely different life And I often found myself in rooms full of prestigious degrees.

00:04:46: You know people with those degrees elite education Who traveled the world?

00:04:51: but on different terms and different conditions.

00:04:54: And our experiences didn't match, and I felt very

00:04:57: small.".

00:04:59: And i do remember some comments when someone would say oh you know they were discussing golf over the weekends?

00:05:05: Then I would curiously ask more about that!

00:05:08: They'd say don't worry we will never play golf.

00:05:12: And that's the

00:05:13: experience I had.

00:05:15: It depends

00:05:17: on countries you're living in, so tell us just for our listeners which country did actually live-in and work?

00:05:23: Just a brief overview where we know more about your background.

00:05:29: Yeah well i came from Belarus then i lived in Ukraine In United Kingdom Then i studied in Lithuania And then I live in Belgium and they work in China.

00:05:40: I never lived in China, but I worked remotely also Yeah!

00:05:46: Then i worked across Europe as well like working with many countries and being responsible for the market to twenty five country.

00:05:53: so I would travel a lot and having business with those people.

00:05:58: Every time you meet new culture it takes a lot of effort right?

00:06:05: If you do that quite often Then at some point you realize that I don't remember who I am because i'm over adapting and i'm adjusting to so many different situations.

00:06:16: And, yeah... So many expectations in the end!

00:06:19: I'm losing my view of myself inside me right?

00:06:24: Thanks for sharing your personal experience as well with us.

00:06:28: when was there a moment where actually stopped observing and also maybe being self-reflective quite critical about yourself

00:06:38: And

00:06:39: started to think, okay I have to write it down actually.

00:06:43: I have support other women as well and share my personal

00:06:47: experience.".

00:06:48: The book we already mentioned starts with quite a striking line!

00:06:55: This is the Scream into the Void.

00:06:57: so what made you finally decide to write this?

00:07:02: Yeah... You know i worked in leadership positions for some time And I've often found myself the only woman on team, management team and executive team.

00:07:16: Those men were also locals.

00:07:18: so i represented both minorities as if it was an international person or a human being So that double way really didn't make my life easy.

00:07:28: In some situations I found myself shouted at or humiliated.

00:07:34: That wasn't the best experience of course And I internalized that for some time.

00:07:41: But then at one breaking point, i realized That it's not me.

00:07:46: The problem is not me caring For people.

00:07:48: the Problem Is Not Me Challenging the status quo.

00:07:52: The problem was that that environment Was not ready for my leadership style and I had those deep Leadership strengths in me that were not accepted.

00:08:01: Then said to myself What if I ask it differently?

00:08:05: what If instead of How do I fit in?

00:08:08: I ask myself, who do i choose to be this environment?

00:08:12: and what if all together All international women will reframe the whole conversation.

00:08:18: And that's where The book was born actually with that idea...I want to reframe their conversation!

00:08:24: I want challenge those outdated leadership models That we take for granted because they sound so convincing

00:08:30: right?!

00:08:32: If just asked you close your eyes.

00:08:33: imagine a leader.

00:08:35: How does he look like?

00:08:37: how Does He behave?

00:08:39: you notice what's happening, right That something we take for granted four years and I was realizing that We are in leadership as women For a bit more than one hundred years.

00:08:51: You didn't have enough time To challenge anything.

00:08:55: we do contribute with review of something but we don't really Challenge the system itself And A lot Of Women that i worked With and i coached they had similar situations.

00:09:08: So we were all from different countries, from different cultures and backgrounds and different careers but we all spoke the same language.

00:09:16: We challenged the status of leaders today And we were questioning ourselves.

00:09:25: But deep inside we truly believe that it's not us and this book is about It actually inviting women leaders to reframe the conversation and to find back who they are instead of trying to pretend being someone else.

00:09:43: Yeah, so from your experience let's stay close to this real experience for a minute.

00:09:50: when an international woman walks into work yeah what is she carrying that the rest of us never see?

00:09:56: Is it this doubt you just mentioned?

00:09:58: or oh what do you think?

00:10:02: Yeah, interesting.

00:10:03: You go straight to the point and that's it!

00:10:06: The doubts... And the more successful a woman appears externally, ...the more self-doubts she may carry internally.

00:10:14: That is the problem I've noticed with all my clients as well as with all of my colleagues and leaders who have had a chance to talk about this.

00:10:24: They share that they feel like there has been an invisible gap between them and male peers.

00:10:33: And often local male peers, right?

00:10:35: So we know the percentage of leaders man on the teams in the higher you go below or the percent that your female representation is there.

00:10:44: Right.

00:10:44: so they do believe That their successful if They pretend to be men If they match The expected leadership style and it burns them.

00:10:55: that makes Them feel like they will never get There.

00:10:57: because let's Be honest We are not the same gender.

00:11:02: We have different needs, we have different expectations...we cannot always pretend that we need the same because we don't need the Same!

00:11:10: We need difference and equality equal opportunities.

00:11:14: but we do not NEED to pretend that you will ever bridge this gap.

00:11:19: And if I speak about international women so imagine adding a new layer on top of it?

00:11:25: The burden.

00:11:27: constantly adjusting to a new culture and speaking several languages, one language at home.

00:11:32: One language at work then maybe you have some like here in Belgium.

00:11:36: we have two different local languages that we learn so the word never actually stops.

00:11:42: as an international woman You have to work twenty four hours.

00:11:46: your brain keeps proteins into information keep translating different symbols and clues And that's something that is really invisible.

00:11:55: You come to work and then no one knows what happened to you, and what happens in the immune.

00:12:02: some basic things.

00:12:03: if we just think of a basic thing like doing groceries opening a bank account speaking to your neighbors That's all work.

00:12:10: There's a second job that you have to do when you're new in that country and locals would never understand.

00:12:18: Yeah

00:12:21: You just described that international women are caring like this invisible weight and what might be on the outside, might be praised.

00:12:32: Resilience, adaptability learning languages is totally different to the inside where confidence slowly eroding.

00:12:44: And there's a story in your book about senior leader pulling a woman on his lap in front of the entire team.

00:12:52: Actually, I was quite shocked and speechless when i read that And you also talked about the silence That

00:12:58: followed!

00:12:59: You frame her silence not as weakness but as survival.

00:13:05: Why does that distinction matter so much?

00:13:09: Yeah because...I really appreciate your touch upon this topic Because it's quite sensitive And it's not one of the stories.

00:13:20: It is actually one story that I shared with me, and there are worse situations we don't always talk about... ...and here the distinction is really important because as women we're so good at blaming ourselves and internalizing that feeling of guilt-that it was all my fault!

00:13:44: But in fact, what we learn from the young age is adaptability and tolerance.

00:13:50: And those that don't get me wrong... Those are really good qualities but they also mean That We Don't Always Have The Strengths Inside Of Us To Stop Their Own Behavior And Make People Accountable For Their Behavior.

00:14:07: And Thats How We Learned to Survive.

00:14:10: We Learn To Move On Not Because of ourselves but because the system and society norms, we are so afraid to appear arrogant or too confident.

00:14:21: Because that's not something people expect from women right?

00:14:26: We're there to serve!

00:14:28: To support it And understand.

00:14:30: an empathetic woman is actually what has been promoted.

00:14:34: A woman leader Is someone who has such a high degree of empathy.

00:14:39: But What does this really mean?

00:14:41: Yeah,

00:14:42: yeah.

00:14:43: So it's actually surprising that That is actually so little that you know women actually talk about it.

00:14:51: However It's so common like all over the world depending what kind of cultures You're dealing with or nationalities?

00:14:58: Or which country are living in and why do you think it stays quite or Do you feel Actually happening at the moment there more awareness now when people start talking About these issues

00:15:12: I think on the overall global level, we speak about it.

00:15:17: On the news some anonymous testimonials but when it comes to a workplace or your social environment that's different story.

00:15:29: When people know you It is not something they feel proud of and as people have our biases.

00:15:36: so historically We haven't really done great job in overcoming those biases And we often put a label on the person.

00:15:44: We know if I share something today, tomorrow everyone will put a labels on me because that's how we deal with uncertainty and unfamiliarness.

00:15:54: to simplify for ourselves in our comfort zone.

00:15:58: That is really difficult for international women Because they already struggle building their image or reputation in new places.

00:16:06: They don't have families there friends from school or you know, from childhood who knew all your life.

00:16:14: And the risk is quite big.

00:16:16: if you share something The risk that this table will stay with us for the rest of our lives.

00:16:23: So their support system is missing as well As you just mentioned it.

00:16:27: at another point You stated is that Research actually on international women leaders barely exists there invisible even in the data.

00:16:40: Why do you think that GAP has been allowed to persist?

00:16:47: That's a very good question, and I don't think i have an answer for this but my personal and professional experience is that The world still ruled by men And we recently saw research on medical research Man is still predominant.

00:17:06: So what are we talking about?

00:17:08: Leadership is dominated by men, why would they be interested to let a female research in the field?

00:17:20: so it's on the females actually too push this research as well.

00:17:24: exactly that and That's where I feel It's so powerful To write books to convince other women to participate in reservation, share their stories.

00:17:35: To openly talk about that.

00:17:37: but also there are quite good associations and organizations that promote female leadership

00:17:43: And

00:17:43: I know a few clients told me Inna.

00:17:46: But we don't feel comfortable joining the female leadership organisations just because We do not want to be perceived as feminists or that we...we don't Feel like we can become good leaders And that's also something I get, but we have to work on because if you cannot openly say female leadership can not be the same as male leadership.

00:18:08: We had a big problem.

00:18:11: Yeah So let's move into their broad framework and so You build something to help Women actually and it's called abroad at six steps and i want uh If you could walk us through slowly what is actually all about, yeah?

00:18:28: What it is and why does everything start here with this framework.

00:18:33: I'd love to share the framework behind the book but before i do i'd like to start with the quotes that i used to open that framework and it comes from Shirley Chisholm an afro-american woman who was the first black woman.

00:18:48: so she also represented both minorities in nineteen sixty eight Right?

00:18:56: So she says, if they don't give you a seat at the table bring a folding chair.

00:19:02: And I love that quote!

00:19:03: Yeah yeah i heard about this.

00:19:07: yes it's nice It feels

00:19:08: so empowering right and especially for international women in what it does to us.

00:19:14: it says Don't wait for validation.

00:19:17: Don't Wait For Permission.

00:19:19: Especially when You live abroad yourself often outside of those rooms where decisions are made Right?

00:19:25: Those unofficial meetings and those relationships that you cannot really benefit from.

00:19:32: So I find it's very important, And That is how i came with the framework of supporting women to stop wasting and claim their space.

00:19:42: You can actually claim your space whenever you feel like right wherever you want And so the framework is actually something very simple.

00:19:54: It only has six steps, right?

00:19:56: and it starts with a first step which also the most difficult for people to acknowledge their leadership edge many international.

00:20:07: Yes, thank you.

00:20:08: Yeah,

00:20:08: people here in front of us and we're looking at the framework as well if yes exactly acknowledge yeah

00:20:15: And that's where honestly this step surprisingly becomes difficult for international professionals.

00:20:21: but it is also the most surprising part.

00:20:23: I asked them to actually list everything they have been doing since moving abroad.

00:20:29: because If You Look At The Actual Projects Of Relocation Right, building your new life from scratch.

00:20:38: That's a project that you manage and you have big risks right?

00:20:43: A budget that you have to manage the timeline with stakeholders that are not always so collaborative.

00:20:50: So if you have managed to do this... You're leader!

00:20:55: You've got leadership skills.

00:20:58: It takes little effort at least everything done And acknowledge it.

00:21:03: And that's what the ha moment is about.

00:21:06: When they list it and look at its, They realize actually have those leadership superpowers just because they come from abroad.

00:21:16: So we thrown this conversation completely.

00:21:18: you don't have to close the gap You don' t have stretch yourself!

00:21:22: You've done by working abroad.

00:21:28: That really inspiring.

00:21:29: Because then move on next step which on believing in what you have just done.

00:21:36: And that's believe-in your value, now that you've acknowledged it all name and claim it right?

00:21:43: Naming is not always straightforward.

00:21:46: so then we also ask our women to go and ask colleagues friends family What do you know me for?

00:21:56: Do I rely on my strength or how do i actually bring the value?

00:22:02: And then they list three pillars.

00:22:04: So first one is how do I think i contribute?

00:22:08: What's my unique, rare value that I bring to the table?

00:22:12: Second way is How Do People See Me Contributing and what Is Their Perception and Does It Match?

00:22:18: it doesn't always match which also makes it more interesting Yeah...and Then The Third One maybe the most important one is How do I want To be perceived right?

00:22:29: What Do I Want to Be Known For?

00:22:31: What is the value that I actually want to develop?

00:22:34: And we are stepping into growth and developing your potential.

00:22:38: We move also through third step, which design a future self.

00:22:44: because it's where i talk about choice.

00:22:46: It isn't something straight forward for many women That everything you do has choices.

00:22:51: If you realize this You can choose who will become In the beginning of sharing my story From a developing country, from small village.

00:23:03: That I cannot change.

00:23:04: that's something i don't choose where im born which language i speak by default but what i can chose is which languages i will learn in the future Which languages i'll speak and which koreas i will pursue And What kind of person i will become?

00:23:19: And thats something really powerful for women Especially when they live abroad.

00:23:24: They find back their dreams, they find back the strengths from...from their own childhood or teenage.

00:23:33: Or just a life that they had in different country because coming back to yourself is super powerful and important.

00:23:43: And that's where they start getting energy form.

00:23:47: I speak about thoughts as well a lot.

00:23:52: I studied Emotion Intelligence and Neuroscience a little bit, the knowledge that i truly value and appreciate from that background.

00:24:02: Because if you realize that action follows thoughts And how we think it comes through our culture.

00:24:09: It's impacted by our childhoods.

00:24:12: How are parents were?

00:24:13: Our friends in school?

00:24:15: where?

00:24:16: That is something which can still influence or change.

00:24:19: And if we learn to manage our brain, If you figure out how to change the way we think We then can impact How we act.

00:24:28: How it reacts To the world and the behaviors that we have.

00:24:32: That comes from changing your life.

00:24:35: That's a small secret of learning that consequence You know?

00:24:40: The thoughts are impacting Your action and their actions Impacting your life.

00:24:46: That's something that you can learn with this step.

00:24:48: And it takes quite some time to work through the exercise and to master, changing your thoughts and actions.

00:24:59: Very

00:24:59: interesting!

00:25:01: Also talk about how you could redesign yourself right?

00:25:08: You look at who are today... ...and actually choose little details.

00:25:12: It doesn't have to be huge it's also little steps that you can take.

00:25:18: Maybe there are a few things that they don't like about yourself, or if your thinks that we're looking at someone else and that's all in your control but something you can put on paper and make it practice right?

00:25:33: And then be moving to more of the practice step which is owning your actions.

00:25:42: Planning an action is different than actually taking an action.

00:25:47: And if you just think of something, it becomes a dream.

00:25:50: but the dream will stay a dream If we don't act on that.

00:25:54: So in step number four We talk about time A lot Time and energy.

00:26:00: Because what I've noticed working with international women That they are so generous with their time Also with their effort towards others.

00:26:09: They always find time to help someone.

00:26:11: they always time and energy to support someone or to save someone from a situation.

00:26:18: But sometimes we have to let it go, you know make other people responsible for their actions on non-action yeah

00:26:26: Yeah

00:26:28: And do that triangle.

00:26:30: when view You always try to rescue some one and there is the victim there?

00:26:35: That's us in our nature of female To be that surrender and to save our family, you know?

00:26:43: Our partners.

00:26:44: Our colleagues at work.

00:26:46: Our managers as well.

00:26:48: So what I'm trying to do in this step is doing time audits Time an effort audit.

00:26:54: so As a woman You list all your time wasters And even if you don't believe they're time-wasters But you list everything that we do today All the hours.

00:27:05: Then how does this contribute To what i am trying to achieve?

00:27:10: How does this serve me?

00:27:12: Why am I doing

00:27:13: that?".

00:27:14: And sometimes it becomes really an eye-opener.

00:27:19: They realize they have very little time left for themselves and a lot of times goes somewhere, to someone else's expectations.

00:27:29: because also why do you want them to look good in the eyes of others' expectations?

00:27:37: Absolutely, yeah.

00:27:38: Which in its essence prevents us from taking the next step right?

00:27:44: And when we speak about leadership that's exactly how we hold back on many things.

00:27:51: Yeah One other interesting thing about this step is that many women believe if they list everything They become vulnerable And being honest with yourself is the first step towards transformation.

00:28:10: If you realize how much time, You have wasted...you can also fix it!

00:28:15: Right?

00:28:15: You take ownership of that and It doesn't always has to be that you don´t do it..You can outsource it.

00:28:21: You can delegate it.

00:28:23: Or ask someone else to support you.

00:28:26: Sometimes just stopping it Is a good thing.

00:28:31: And then we move to the step five, which is actually assessing your progress.

00:28:35: I say assess with compassion.

00:28:37: why?

00:28:38: Because women are very compassionate and empathetic but towards others!

00:28:43: That's about looking inside of your growths and the progress you've made and celebrating those small steps.

00:28:49: because when they realize that we have been progressing compared to us in the past... ...that's an achievement And quite often women compare themselves with someone else, and they feel that they're not good enough.

00:29:05: But you are not competing against anyone!

00:29:10: You just compete yourself in the past.

00:29:11: be proud of it.

00:29:14: Moving to step six which is the final step on sustaining the growth because By that step, the transformation has already happened.

00:29:22: And now The question is how are you going to sustain it?

00:29:25: It's about sustainable leadership as well building a system That will work for You and not For other people!

00:29:33: And thats' the most important and crucial Step.

00:29:35: To realize your girls benefit others People around you.

00:29:39: We create better global environments we Create better Workplaces Better families But also Benefit from about the person you have become, right?

00:29:50: So that's really... The mission of my work is to create better workplaces that are sustainable for human potential.

00:30:01: Yeah thanks for sharing!

00:30:02: That's quite some food for thought actually.

00:30:04: so maybe just for our listeners to repeat like these six steps.

00:30:10: You say first off all it's a choice.

00:30:15: we always have a choice and be in control of other people how they perceive us, but we can't control.

00:30:23: How do you actually want to be perceived right?

00:30:26: And that's what your broad framework is about.

00:30:30: so step one a acknowledge your edge.

00:30:33: Step two B believe and your value.

00:30:37: steps three is are redefine your future self.

00:30:42: step four oh own your actions.

00:30:45: step five A, assess with compassion.

00:30:49: and step six D deepen your impact.

00:30:53: Right?

00:30:54: I was just wondering.

00:30:54: so what's the time frame?

00:30:56: i mean it sounds like a good guideline and a manual but where do you think women maybe um struggle the most.

00:31:09: well

00:31:09: that's a very good question.

00:31:12: there is no fast track right when

00:31:15: talk about transformation,

00:31:17: it has to be ongoing work.

00:31:20: At the same time realizing that many of us are busy and we don't always have the time or opportunity To do the big work I added at the end quite a short challenge for one week

00:31:34: And sometimes

00:31:36: you only need five-to ten minutes to honestly think with yourself.

00:31:42: The biggest transformation comes from Realization that you are in control.

00:31:47: Yeah, and if you know it's not others It's me.

00:31:55: Then you can change the situation yeah.

00:31:59: So just thinking about our listeners.

00:32:00: so if someone like you know If your really um if someone is listening today and feels really stuck?

00:32:05: Yeah, so what does one small first step they could take this week, basically.

00:32:11: What do you recommend?

00:32:13: I invite our listeners to start with Crete and the My Appreciation Board.

00:32:19: that's so empowering!

00:32:20: And it is a living board where you can keep adjusting on your way just at least everything you have accomplished since you moved abroad or started your career abroad or starting leading people across cultures... ...and connect them through leadership skills and competence and appreciate what you have achieved.

00:32:41: And that's the first step, it will be really helpful.

00:32:44: Okay good

00:32:45: interesting yeah okay thank you!

00:32:47: It is quite nice.

00:32:48: in your book I mean you devote like each letter one chapter.

00:32:55: so... a broad like the six steps.

00:32:57: you have six chapters where.

00:32:58: You can actually work with right.

00:33:00: so I have like, do you have questions?

00:33:02: Do you have?

00:33:03: it's like self-assessment tool as well or working mode when you go through different stuff and probably find out alot about yourself aswell.

00:33:12: Yeah right!

00:33:13: The goal was to not create another theory on top.

00:33:16: we had a lot of them And actually one of my early readers said something about this book, she says it's not just another fluffy leadership book you held in your hands.

00:33:27: It gives you clarity and provides with the tools to do something about its to change your situation.

00:33:34: That is a goal for us right?

00:33:37: Yeah true

00:33:38: interesting!

00:33:39: You also shared an experience already.

00:33:43: was there like season where right in the middle of it, stay or go kept quiet.

00:33:51: Or finally say yes to it or no.

00:33:57: so you don't have to name like anyone.

00:34:00: but I just want find out a little bit more how really works in real life.

00:34:08: yeah as i mentioned an executive team where I was the only woman in the one way international.

00:34:17: And it's, I was really protecting people and organization and driving a change that would make their professional life better on.

00:34:26: that will help them grow and develop in that company.

00:34:31: There was one of the meetings were this senior executive was evaluating our performance.

00:34:38: That didn't really lend to be.

00:34:41: And he went on and on, getting really frustrated.

00:34:45: Blaming everything of people or individuals... That's where I felt that I couldn't stand it anymore.

00:34:53: so I spoke up!

00:34:55: I tried to bring my perspective.

00:34:59: What happened instead of the constructive conversation?

00:35:02: It was just shouted at me in a loud voice.

00:35:08: People were hearing this through closed doors

00:35:12: Yeah,

00:35:14: and I froze because i couldn't respond.

00:35:16: so yeah.

00:35:16: I was just sitting there reflecting on that And then suddenly it all stopped and I was invited to present my part of the meeting as nothing had happened.

00:35:29: And I said you just remember he says something like You know?

00:35:40: the breaking point.

00:35:41: That was the worst and also, the best experience in my professional career because that was the moment when I said... ...I will never tolerate this behavior!

00:35:50: And i will never work in an environment like that.. ..and I want to make a change To address it?

00:35:57: And help other women who experienced the same things as me Because I saw many of them being exhausted Continuously trying to protect themselves from such behaviors.

00:36:10: And that's where I turned my career projection into executive coaching and supporting senior women in leadership, focusing on international people because it was my experience.

00:36:22: That is when i can contribute the best.

00:36:27: So interesting.

00:36:29: When you look back, what would tell your younger self before moving abroad?

00:36:34: What was the wisdom that you'd actually tell yourself to be more... Don't take it too personally.

00:36:42: or also ...what is it about?

00:36:44: That's a very interesting question!

00:36:47: I think i will tell myself remember who are and don't let anyone break you or show you your place, because there is no place for you.

00:36:59: You can choose your place in this world.

00:37:03: Okay

00:37:03: interesting thank-you for sharing.

00:37:06: Do you think that's a task women should do just on their own?

00:37:11: Because I mean it seems like Women need to self reflect and change and grow as well but at the same time I think there are so many men as well who might be supportive, right?

00:37:28: So why don't reach out.

00:37:30: Yeah

00:37:30: that's a very good point.

00:37:32: and you know when i was writing this book i was really thinking about international women in the scope And my earlier readers shared something very interesting with me.

00:37:42: they said Well even if i don't have an international experience... ...and i feel excluded.

00:37:48: This book is very helpful Even if I just feel and think that i'm underestimated, this book is helpful.

00:37:58: And also they share it with their husband partners managers colleagues because yes They said something to me.

00:38:07: finally someone has seen Me.

00:38:10: Finally I can put words on my experience and I can let other people in My environments understand me Understand what?

00:38:20: So in the end, this book is for everyone who's willing to support it and you can be a manager.

00:38:26: A local manager managing team of internationals.

00:38:30: This book also works on you because then you understand what they're going through And support them in their best way.

00:38:41: Have you received any feedback so far regarding your book or framework?

00:38:46: the abroad framework.

00:38:48: Yes, I have been receiving feedback and some days it feels really like a big celebration because if i can help only one person that's already an achievement.

00:39:00: when i keep receiving feedback from different people in different countries either Switzerland or United States or Australia leadership trajectories so they're senior executives or business owners, or middle managers.

00:39:19: The feedback is your book has been transforming me!

00:39:24: Your book has helped me and quite often I'm sorry that i don't have time to do all the exercises but Yeah.

00:39:35: But this is so female as well, right?

00:39:37: Exactly!

00:39:39: I'm not able to do all the exercises...

00:39:42: Complete them all but we will start

00:39:45: And that's why i am here To help us.

00:39:46: while This book Is just a beginning for me I wanted to share my knowledge and The work they have been doing with senior Female leaders.

00:39:55: Do their many So there are Many people That can support it And you start by reading in the Book.

00:40:00: Then You Can also Reach out to Me For Support.

00:40:03: Have you realized, like especially recently right?

00:40:06: Is there a change or trend going on.

00:40:09: I mean we all hear about female empowerment About networking.

00:40:13: About lifting each other up and so forth.

00:40:16: So There's lot Going On Right?

00:40:18: Um have You seen that there is actually A Change?

00:40:24: Well to be honest i feel Like We are Trying To Put The Bandage Here And There And There Are Some Nice Initiatives And Activities But they don't really bring that needed change, the fundamental changes we are all looking forward to.

00:40:42: We need a surgery here and something bigger for an individual contribution.

00:40:48: That's good why you're talking about this today also with your awareness in everything but just share experience as well.

00:40:58: If any of our listeners would actually like to learn more about your work, you mentioned it before.

00:41:03: They can connect with you.

00:41:04: what is the best?

00:41:05: or even read your book?

00:41:06: Where's the best place for them to find you how they can contact

00:41:11: with you?

00:41:11: well The Best Place To Find Me Is Of Course On LinkedIn where I have been quite active and You Can Find On The Resources And Also My Website GlobalLeaderEdge.com.

00:41:27: Okay, great.

00:41:28: We put in the show notes as well all the details.

00:41:30: Yes And

00:41:31: maybe you already mentioned that some women might think or feel excluded because they don't have like this international career.

00:41:39: and can You may be.

00:41:40: just stress again Who is this really for?

00:41:43: Because it's also including the woman who made Put it back on the shelf because she is not sure It is about her right.

00:41:51: so when actually Absolutely is.

00:41:54: You just mentioned it,

00:41:54: right?

00:41:55: So whether you are a woman leader building your career alive abroad or someone who's living globally but with international teams so anyone that has direct connection to international professionals and multicultural environments can also be helpful if they find themselves in affinity professionals, right?

00:42:22: So what if you want to learn more about how the global world looks like.

00:42:30: Right so If your just curious about How I can contribute that transformation and how Can i benefit

00:42:37: from

00:42:38: multicultural synergy then this book is also for you.

00:42:41: Thank you so much, thank you!

00:42:42: For joining and such an open and inspiring conversation.

00:42:46: it has been a real pleasure having you on the Culture Exchange podcast.

00:42:49: Thank You So

00:42:53: Much!